Episode 4: What problems is Crypto trying to solve?

What problems is crypto solving?

What are the differences between Crypto and the Traditional Finance world?  We discuss what Crypto is trying to accomplish on a number of dimensions including:

1. Fees
2. Speed
3. Security
4. Custody
5. Layer 2 and similar Products with a bit of a ETH vs, BTC sprinkled in there

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Every Podcast we add to our public follow list an account we think of as Value add.   This Episode we add to the list @lynalden (https://twitter.com/LynAldenContact) who in addition to being a class act is a tireless and prolific educator on Investing in general and Crypto in particular. 

A great video this week is Anthony Pompliano debating Bitcoin with a skeptic here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lus5tohC6bE&t=775s

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Transcript

Gabriel Riesco: 0:07

Today, we're going to continue the conversation we had in the last part in the last podcast. hour, we're going to hyperfocus done this episode is on the problems that the blockchain solves. We talked in the previous podcast about face, that's one thing we already covered. So it basically can save money on fees. The technology can give us that benefit with the blockchain the second time. The second thing that I want to ask is about the timing, time of transactions. Can you talk about that, Alex?

Alexandre Fuchs: 0:46

Sure. So I think as we talked about last time, the idea roughly materially, it's, you know, its its simplest form is that crypto blockchain can and usually will be faster. Certainly, again, more transparent trustless than the traditional system for many applications. So we talked about remittance, for example, many other things.

Gabriel Riesco: 1:16

Now, the question is more like a practical use or a specific use. So in the traditional system, it can take up two days to finalize a transaction, right? Yeah. It's my understanding that on the blockchain, at least on the Bitcoin, I'm sure, like different blockchains are different on timing. But to really finalize a transaction, it takes it can take up to an hour, is that correct? up to it could be less,

Alexandre Fuchs: 1:45

it can take up to an hour to get final confirmation, I think, here's the way I think about it, right? For whatever it's worth. a symptom of inefficiency is a lack of standard or clarity, to me. So for example, if you blink, so if you work at a certain particular small company, and you process credit cards, most likely your bank will give you your money the next day. But it could be that you change your job and you go to another company, and their credit card processing gets fulfilled in six hours, and you're going to work in another company. And maybe that provider gives it to you, you know, on credit, more or less until it finally settles immediately. And somebody else will take three days. And there's no that everyone is using a different system. Or everybody is using one of many systems, not infinite systems, but many different systems, all of which have different fees. They have different settlement times. Meaning when do I get my money? customer came into my store at 11 o'clock, when do I get my money? How much money do I get? What are my fees? When is it going to be available? How is it reported?

Gabriel Riesco: 2:58

And also it affects from different countries to different countries? Or even Yeah, blockchain doesn't have that problem?

Alexandre Fuchs: 3:04

Well, it it's I think it's too fast to say it doesn't have the problem, it doesn't have the problem by simplifying one thing, which is that it's all the same currency, the same cryptocurrency but of course, if you're in Argentina, if you're in Spain, or if you're in France, or if you're in the US, when you need to use that money to pay salaries or to do something else, you're not have to bring it back into a currency that somebody will want to use. So you still have to exchange your money, you know what I'm

Gabriel Riesco: 3:30

talking about? It's in within the environment of of the blockchain.

Alexandre Fuchs: 3:36

Now I know, of course it is. But what I'm saying is that people who say everything is so much simpler, as long as you use crypto. Well, in 2021, nobody is accepting a salary very few people are accepting salaries in Bitcoin, very few gallons of milk are being sold in Bitcoin. So that Yeah, there's a huge advantage in being able to move around money into crypto. But ultimately, you still have to come back to dollars, not in the future. 2030 years from now, that may be very different. And many countries could, for example, very much use as a second currency. A cryptocurrency that is common to all countries. But But I don't want to simplify it to say that it is always the case that that money is immediately usable very easily.

Gabriel Riesco: 4:17

Now, that's a great point. And people should know about this. But my question is like within that environment with the blockchain, the technology, which is vision to solve this particular problem, it is it's fair to say that it's by story takes like, any time between 10 minutes to one hour maximum Trump to finally to finalize and verify that transaction,

Alexandre Fuchs: 4:40

probably the verify faster and to finalize is is is you know, kind of like the maximum extent of the timeline. Again, the point is standardization. Everybody has clarity. Everybody knows how it works. Everybody can look to it, and there's a very easily adoptable standard. Where again, back to the example I was trying to give before You can go from company to company, business to business, country to country. And these are all different systems, all of which have different fees. There's no clarity. So for example, you go to a new company, as a treasurer or as a, you know, as a finance person, or whatever it is, you have to really learn all the stuff that you've learned, you know, in one system. Now, you were very familiar with the JP Morgan system, and it was fantastic. And it did everything that you wanted. But now it's a bank of america company. So now you have to relearn everything back or America, or whatever it is, right. There's inefficiencies and training and efficiencies and processing and inefficiencies and errors. There's all that stuff that happens, which is, you know, which are addressable inefficiencies that have to do with the timing, not just that it's shorter, that you get your money faster, that's important. But also, the process of actually using these tools is standardized, somewhat easier is, is is, is not subject to you having to accept a banks or an intermediary product that you have no control over. The protocol is simple. You can build your own tools, you build your tools, you're familiar with them, they work, as opposed to I have to use you know, this particular payment processor, or this merchant services or this bank system or whatever, all these just fragment that system, create complication that are not necessarily valuable.

Gabriel Riesco: 6:31

Okay, so it would be fair to say that, not too much that it's faster, but you you can, you can rely on the same expectations every time you do that transaction. While in the traditional data I'm talking about, obviously, the blockchain on the traditional system is more like you don't really know what what's going to happen. So because what I understand what you said, is that sometimes in the traditional system, it actually could be faster. Is that correct? Yeah. Mostly because less Yeah. But it's just that you don't know. It could be or it could not be, and there's a lot of variables. Exactly.

Alexandre Fuchs: 7:09

And we're very early. So for example, a lot of people are building these tools. In the traditional system, you know, I'm saying is if you're trying to compare the current, you know, kind of what can crypto do? There's two questions, what can cook to do now? What can you do in the future?

Gabriel Riesco: 7:27

But right now, with Bitcoin, specifically, you will take up to an hour, correct? Yes, it's okay. Yeah. All right. Okay, so we check that on the list. So we talked about fees. Now, we talked about time of transaction. Let's talk about security. I think that's a that's an interesting one. And let me ask you specifically, because if I'm correct, on the traditional system, there's a risk of fraud. In the baseline, I'm not talking about, you know, the platform like I'm not talking about mount Gox, versus the blockchain in crypto, but in the traditional system as a baseline, the risk of fraud, it's kind of taking into account, which makes kind of insurance kicking. Can you talk about that?

Alexandre Fuchs: 8:19

So the traditional system, right, in order to make it simple for the use of the credit card, the user of the credit card never gets to see any cost of fraud, right? They just see 3%, or they don't even see it, actually, the seller will probably see the fee, right? So in some ways for a Amex, card account holder, for a Visa, MasterCard, card holder. This is all essentially transparent. So they don't think it exists. They don't think about it. All they really care about when it makes sense, is that if somebody else uses their car, they can call up and say, Hey, I was in Dallas yesterday, and I did not spend $5,000 on furniture. And for them, that's a big benefit. To have insurance. And this is a big point, actually, to think about it is because Eternity is not free. insurance for sure is not free, the costs are not free. And this is a big determining factor in why the wholesale rate is 2% on credit cards because a big part of my senses, and others can can opine upon upon it better is, you know, structural fraud costs that have been naturalized and spread upon all users. So the easy answer, which is not necessarily the right one is to say, Well, if you hold your keys, if you hold your password, you're taking out crypto and crypto, yes, sorry, in crypto, then they can't be any form. Like why would there be any fraud so you don't need insurance? Well, that's the easy answer. I gotcha. At least on the bay. Well, let me give you a different example. Right? You do not On the stock yourself, very few people. What? That's partly I

Gabriel Riesco: 10:06

don't want to get into custody yet because that's gonna be my next question.

Alexandre Fuchs: 10:09

Well, when? Okay, fair point, so let's put custody aside if you want, but it is a custody important point here, which is that the credit card offers a package deal. It offers an insecure system that is policed, and costed out. It's very interesting. You have to think of it that way, I think. So if if Bank of America gives you a credit card, they are giving you an insecure, semi insecure system that gets more secure with SIM cards more secure with CVV, sec vehicle codes and all that kind of good stuff, right? But ultimately insecure, because in some ways, they also understand the psychology of the holder of the card, which is, Hey, you know, don't bother me with all that stuff. I just want to be able to pay and when there's a problem, you deal with it, right? kryptos not that way, right? crypto introduces currently, to users. The requirement to manage your keys, manage your security, hold your Bitcoin, choose a provider. So for example, if you want to be in crypto, you get to decide do I want to have an account at Krakow, North Coinbase or somewhere else. And these companies didn't exist 1015 years ago. So you can't really say hey, you know, it's like open an account that JPMorgan Chase that has been around forever and is FDIC approved, approved, uninsured, and so on, so forth. So I want to make a distinction, because everybody kind of says, well, crypto is incredibly more efficient. But you have to look at the emotion and the psychological makeup of the customer itself. The customer, many of them do not like to have to be worried about security, they will pay for it. My argument is that they are overpaying now. And they are systems and they are products that have been created on the blockchain that will provide the same kind of comfort

Gabriel Riesco: 12:01

that they used to be there when you say they're overpaying. They're overpaying like platforms like Coinbase, or no, no.

Alexandre Fuchs: 12:09

No, what I'm saying is that overpaying American Express MasterCard, traditionally, I'm saying in the traditional system, they overpay for the comfort that if there's a problem, they don't need to deal with it. And Maher argument is that, particularly with a cell phone in your hand, biometrically approved and so on so forth. My sense is as there's a potential to develop a market, within shows that would ensure transactions at a lower rate, as long as the users of the product are using, say a cell phone and other other systems. authentication, two factor authentication, a number of different system to approve transactions in order to be more secure. Once again, you can't underestimate I think, brushes, I can't overestimate a consumers desire for comfort. A user of a financial product does wants to provide her the financial product to deal with all this scam stuff hacking, and so on, so forth. So as long as crypto users are either forced to manage their own security, or not participate, there's a large part of the market that's not going to accept it. They don't accept in securities and stocks bonds, they don't accept it in it. They don't accept any titles of houses or, and or cars or any of that stuff. They like having somebody else who's responsible for the security of the of the transactions they put.

Gabriel Riesco: 13:50

Yeah, I think what we get interesting there or, or where I would like to kind of try to bring some clarity is that fundamentally, when you're in the traditional system, the risk management of fraud, the insurance, the you know, whoever is taking care of the security of the transactions. It's in it's already in the system, you can get rid of that. And I think what's fundamentally different and correct me if I'm wrong is on the blockchain. If you hold your keys directly in the blockchain, which is the baseline, that problem does not exist. You don't need insurance. We agree there's no risk of fraud. Now, the layer on top of that, that's a different conversation. Is that correct? Yeah,

Alexandre Fuchs: 14:41

you're making a good distinction, but I want to make sure that we just break it down. The traditional system does not give you that choice. It doesn't tell you if you want to have extra security, you will pay no fees or very little fees. It just gives you a package deal that you can disintermediate you can't separate it out. deliberate like laying the foundation in the first floor in the second floor altogether, there's nothing you can do about it, you're forced into it, it's just the only one that exists. The opportunity of crypto is to disintermediate to this aggregates really these different pieces. So if you want to be somebody who is paranoid about security, there are many people who are on social media to talk about not your keys, not your Bitcoin. There's a lot of people who believe that if you don't physically carry it on, you hold it, you know, we can we can get into private keys with private keys are a whole other topic, but let's just simplify it to say that if you don't own the security yourself, and therefore if you lose the security, you've lost everything, through no fault of your own. And let's not forget that we are living to older ages, and many of us are, you know, will be subject to medical conditions like dementia and other things that it is to me to only look at crypto, or to only try to convince crypto or to only define a crypto user, as the wave that current or early adopter of crypto behave, may turn off most of the markets, most of the potential users of it, right. This is why you need people to educate and to create those products. So just a super simplify, right? I know a lot of people who do not want to hold their private keys, they just don't want to is just not what they used to. And they can be super successful people. And they could be super smart people and they're just like, I'm not gonna sit there and be getting worried that I'm going to get burglarized or I have to worry about my thing, or I'm going to keep it in my head or I'm going to forget it or any of the 1000s of ways in which you can screw yourself up with crypto with the holding of the private keys of a crypto address, right. And they would happily pay somebody else in a verified trustable way to hold it. The proof of it is that there's a lot of money, a lot of crypto that is kept at Coinbase and a crack and and on the exchanges and so on so forth. Because there's a lot of those kinds of users of crypto, who have no desire to take the crypto offline. Okay, so in the, to me, this is important point, the next point is to break them and to make them feel stupid for not, you know, rising to the occasion of taking the security and their livelihood in their own hands, I think is helpful. I think differently. So we'll find a different path to crypto.

Gabriel Riesco: 17:45

So what are you saying is fundamentally solve the problem. But in practicality, the way our people behave right now, it doesn't really solve that problem. Is that fair? No,

Alexandre Fuchs: 17:56

I wouldn't say that, I would say that kryptos absolutely solve that problem. Right? Because what it does is it says, if you want to absolutely completely securely, if you want to be absolutely sure you have a method of transacting, which is transparent trustless, where you can control completely, here it is. And it gives you the option, it gives you that option. And my argument is simply that that's going to be perfect for some people, and imperfect for others. And for those that it isn't perfect for. There are tools and products that can be built on top of crypto for additional fees and costs because nobody's going to do that for free. That will satisfy the other consumers, the consumers are not necessarily the ones that want to hold their own keys. And that will make money for those people taking that risk. Either taking that risk, because they're insuring it out or because they have certain systems. And the players can probably be defined today, there's no reason why Apple would not provide a crypto wallet built into any of their systems. at some particular points, it is a natural evolution of what they would do. Same for insurers same for other providers. And therefore, these different customers with different profiles, can all make their way into this Because ultimately, even with the second and a third layer added on top of the base layer, even with another system, that will ensure that you don't have to hold your keys or whatever it is it is still cheaper, still more transparent, still faster than the traditional system centralized system.

Gabriel Riesco: 19:33

Okay, so this leads to the next point, which is costly, right, which is very, very hard to this. Yeah. So let's bring some clarity into that. How discussed the how does it work on the traditional system and how does it work on on crypto and crypto. These are the two layers not just to the blockchain, which will we talked about, but also what you just explained about people's behavior.

Alexandre Fuchs: 19:56

So in again, for anybody who actually knows this for having worked in directly They can more than happily tell me how wrong I am. But let me meet again, I love the word materially, because I think this is how my brain works in the way that I think about it. I think it's probably how I'd answer it, rather than trying to explain how it actually done in detail. But the system, the centralized system, the existing system, financial system, a traditional system is a set of intergroup, inter related trusted relationships between private actors and public institutions, where there are a number of checks and balances all powered by software, sometime 50 year old software, but still software that provide for a number of methods by which bank actors and financial actors can transact. And therefore they get access to certain Think of it as API's, but you don't like certain gateways certain systems, swift being one system, led they use that they incorporate in certain particular way into their own system, and then provide to their customers. So in that particular case, the, the systems themselves, it's not like nobody uses a software, that just every bank uses a different type of software for their own systems. every transaction is handled in a certain particular way. And as long as it follows certain ethical standards, that I can't remember, the Comptroller of the Currency or the Federal Reserve, I think, provides then you know, you can send money to each other. Very, very often what will happen is two banks, just have we talked about that, I think, by discussion, too. But you know, JP Morgan, and the debrett, Morgan, Chase, and Bank of America will have all their customers, they have paying customers, people going into stores, and have stores who collect the payments, and they have relationship between each other and they just net it out. At the end of the day, they figured out that the 1.6 million people who were traced customers bought stuff at a bank of america store, and 1.7 million Bank of America customer bought stuff at the JP Morgan store, and they do all the accounting, and at the end of the day, they send each other the net of the money between where they need to do their settlement. At the end of the day, there's a whole system that they share that does all kind of stuff, it's nothing doesn't work and it works.

Gabriel Riesco: 22:32

Bringing back to the class that he laid down, explain what the effects are. What happens? Well, in that case, and how it works.

Alexandre Fuchs: 22:44

Fair enough, the custody is just basically when you pay somebody else, to hold the title for something that you own. So in these cases, money, it can be securities, important than bonds are important, as well, right? Because that's the one that most people understand. Most people understand that they have an account the Trump, then Trump tells them how much money they have. And Trump acts as a custodian, which means they buy the securities and then they hold the securities for you. You'd never if if Trump were to disappear, you'd have to go through the rubble to draw and get your shares back. years ago, they were bearer bonds and other bonds that existed, and stock certificates and all that kind of stuff. And you know, it's 15 7080 years ago, it was not uncommon to buy shares of stock for your children and hand it to them or put it somewhere where they have to actually physic physical piece of paper with all the risks of what happens if the house burns down, you get robbed, which means that you have custody of that that's the custody. custody is just like custody of a child or a parent or anything you've just, you are in physical ownership of physical. I'm sure there's a legal term physical access physical control of something. And most of the traditional system works upon delegation of that custody, that I don't hold it. I don't have my stocks. I just have accounts with people. Hedge funds, have prime brokers have custodians, there's a whole business of custody, which is just the business of holding an asset on behalf of somebody else for which you get paid a fee. So who are these custodians all the large financial institutions generally play custodians to their customers they are. The custody is usually a department that a financial institution so bank, the bank of america will have a custody custody business where they have their methods for, again, back to swift Stan was sued by the Federal Reserve and other systems, they know how to secure hold. And again, remember, this is probably not a physical certificate, it's probably an entry in a database just as much. But they're the ones who are responsible. And they may self insure, like me couldn't get insurance from somebody else in case something bad happens, right? And to be fair, and this is my point, I have no idea how it works. Right? I mean, like, I have never worked in a custody department. I assume that from the outside, you know, it's an it's a very, it's a system that has genuinely not failed, right, that you haven't heard of fantastic stories. And this is where the mount Gox, for example. good story goes in the early 2000 10s. In crypto, we'll get to that. But the point is that somebody else than you is the person who is controlling the asset that you own. Right.

Gabriel Riesco: 26:07

So if I have me as a user, I have money or or how I owe on stocks, I don't have the ownership, I have custody.

Alexandre Fuchs: 26:17

It's not that's that's not the it's control, I would love to have somebody on who can explain this better than I can. But you still have ownership, you still own it, you're still the titling. Or somebody else's controlling it, either the physical or the software, presence of it is controlled by somebody else.

Gabriel Riesco: 26:35

What I try to understand here, because it's really gone. He's saying, why is this relevant? And why on the critical world blockchain, they keep telling me? Well, we're going to talk about that. That's one of the differences. And you can talk about that, like that you hold classes to do exactly? Well,

Alexandre Fuchs: 26:53

the first thing is that the first thing is I offers you easy custody. So for example, let's say that you want to have your share of Tesla, and you really want it, I honestly don't even know how you would go back, I'm guessing that you would add asked for it to be shipped internationally, in a traditional system, somebody somewhere with printed on some kind of paper, it would get taken off whatever it is, you know, at your broker, and then you would receive it, and then you would have it and it would cost you money and it would do things again, I have no idea whether you can still do it. But in the old days, that's how you know there was a system by which you got a physical piece of paper. You just like money, just like banknotes. The point about crypto is that custody is super easy. custody is default. Right? You I can right now go and create an address. And now the network. And as long as I send crypto to it, which I can do immediately FF created it, I now hold an asset now. Well, yes, exactly. I already own it. But now I also have custody rights, which is that if I lose the way by which I control it, I lost it.

Gabriel Riesco: 28:03

Okay, so I just want to make the point that that's another difference that happens within the blockchain, that you've given whole custody of your money or smart contract. So whatever it is that you're owning, this is, this is the last thing we're gonna run out here. So the blockchain says the base layer where everything always happens, but talk about what can you build on top of that layer? Chuck? So this is this is another benefit of the blockchain. We can, again,

Alexandre Fuchs: 28:47

this is why it's important to understand we're very early so a lot of people want answers. And in the traditional financial system, all the answers have already been printed, tested, the courts have decided there's a lot of things that you know, regulated, regulated, the institutions that regulate is very important one, the institutions have existed for many, many years. So you can get the answer to those questions, right? In crypto, you can get some answers to a few questions. Black and White, super clean, we're leading into right. You know, and how does blockchain work and what does ledger and nodes and, you know, and mining and all that kind of stuff, it's super well defined, you can actually understand it, but then that being if my, in my mind, the foundational layer, but then all the layer above it, all the stuff that you add to it, you know, like there's a version of it, which is 20 1820 1920 2022, it changes all the time and all these things are getting developed. So you have to be patient in terms of understanding what's available, what's not available, but to make it super simple to make it super simple. The the metric of I mean, I guess you could look at it as electricity as well. Right? So, if you think of Bitcoin as electricity, it provides power to anything that you want to. And you can have an empty house and you can start installing a fan, you can start installing a refrigerator. And you can start installing all kinds of different things that have different purposes to you, which are powered by the electricity that comes into your house, right? Similar to Bitcoin. So in my mind, the blockchain is kind of a base layer, it's a settlement layer, it's a store value layer, it's sitting there, it's visible, you can program onto it. Right? You know, again, everything is, you know, in its infancy, so, for example, lightning, which is being built, I mean, we'll get into all that. But again, the thing about Bitcoin is that you cannot use it as a transactional layer very much, right? You can only process a certain amount of transaction, the block size itself, and we'll get into the blocks, the block size wars and all like, lightning. They're gonna build both both and at the same time, right? And his whole argument, yeah, did you build the foundation before you build the first the months before you build or 12 years before you build the first floor? Or do you build the first the foundation and the first boy at the same time? What's the purpose of the house, if you don't have a first floor? What's the purpose of only having a foundation, you know, the number of these nonsense metaphor that we can all use to try to understand that, right, because we're at the infancy and this is what's exciting, none of these things are really like super clear. It's not clear whether or not having a foundation, and then building lightning over it is going to be a better system than having something like aetherium tries to do both. And sure enough, if you go and ask a bunch of people committed to either one of them, they'll tell you how absolutely idiotic. The other one is, and, you know, most of us are sitting there going like, well, like, kind of, you know, how could you possibly have a strong opinion, you know, as these things develop, right. And I'm sure people get pissed off at this, but still trying to keep an open mind, the things that you can build upon it, or how most of people are going to interact with it. I don't think that most people are going to use a metamask wallet, or going use a d phi protocol to exchange one token for another or do on any of these stuff. This is why Coinbase exists, right? Coinbase is there basically to dumb down a reasonably complicated exercise, programmatic exercise, certainly, somebody who's not familiar with technology is not familiar with coding, not familiar with hashes, and addresses and private keys or any of that stuff. Well, you know, they're not going to be super comfortable going out and running a node or or trying to transact or send money, I verify three times the addresses when I send something, if I do send something, right. You know, like, there's a human, you can't get away from the human, emotional, complicated, messy, animalistic behavior of each of these potential customers, and how they're going to see things. And therefore, I think one of the greatest great opportunities is that there's a lot to build above the blockchain. munchie has simple rules. And whether a customer wants custody, whether they want pretty pictures, whether they just wanted to be super simplified, whether they want an insurance product, or when they want to just borrow money, they want to buy a car, any of these things that are around it, these are all products are going to be built on the first and second and third floor of the house. And this is the second layer is the second third layers, you know, and then people argue they're like a second layer, first layer, you know, like, Is there a base layer than the second layer, the third layer? Or is the second and the third the same? Or protocols or apps? I mean, we can, you know, there's a lot of people who will have been by this, but basically, at its fundamental, simplest way, right? There's a set of very rigid rules, very simple rules that define, in this particular case, Bitcoin and how it works. The blockchain the Bitcoin, and which are not going to change very much and which are fixed. And if you want a new feature, if you want something else on it, it ain't gonna happen. Right? Because that thing has to remain more or less the standard or that's the way that people view it. And this is true of this theory of and XRP and many others. We did, we did not talk a lot about Bitcoin. We'll get into Alton other things later. But there's that. And then of course, the whole point of it is that you can build upon it. And in different people build in, depending on their market heft, how many customers they bring to the table or how well they're financed and how smart they are. And they will attract customers to look at things a certain particular way. So Coinbase is a perfect example of a business as you know, grown out of a particular need, What's the need? Well, the retail investor doesn't want to be bothered with custody. They don't want to be bothered with complication, and they're willing to pay very high fees for it. I mean, fees, which, in turn, kind of make crypto make no sense because the whole point of crypto is to try to make fees go away or become as low as they possibly can be. And then you look at Coinbase fees, and they're literally 100 times the fees of, you know, what trouble will proceed, or have been in, you know, in the right time during the frenzy, and so on, so forth. So the Liberty and the freedom to be able to create these products through a very standardized base layer that everybody can understand. And software tools on top of it is interesting. It is at the very basic, you're like, you know, you're telling me, I don't know, if I just learned this protocol, and if I just learn how to code or if I already know how to code or anything I can build these products can do that on on a traditional financial system be too expensive, you need all kinds of different things, you need a banking license to do that, we'll get the regulation and all that. But you know, like, you know, this is the far west. And if you're in 1994, and you start using a browser, called Netscape, and you start seeing images and the JPEGs, show up on your screen, from the other side of the world, and maybe a couple of years before you're starting to use email. Well, it's pretty crappy in terms of product, it's not doing much of anything, it's not for everyone. But you could start seeing where it's going to have some kind of value, right. And ultimately, this whole, this whole thing, I think, is powered by the fact that if you have an open standard, and you can add software to it, you can build a lot of things. And when unusually, you know, these kind of systems tend to build, they may not know where they're going. But by the time you fast forward 1015 years, you go back and you go like, Oh yeah, you know, that company builds something fairly interesting that everybody uses today.

Gabriel Riesco: 37:02

Okay, let's wrap it up here. I think we covered things. Henrique our purposes is to bring mathematics clarity, with not too much opinion. We can give our opinion, clarity so we can understand how these works. We'll we'll get into more of the differences of the different cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and aetherium. And like all of our points, and also we'll we should call our water money as the culture behind the cryptocurrency the component of the culture behind it that is very important. All right. Today, we talked about the differences between crypto and traditional world, which is we come up with these the types of transactions, the security level of both worlds, the custody and also the different layers and we can build a

Alexandre Fuchs: 38:14

great day and a great week. Thanks very much for listening and thanks for your time. We try to you know, as best we can to try to share what we've learned from the outside and try to simplify certain things. Often were confused ourselves, but we're gonna we're gonna keep digging a fair enough. Thanks so much. Thanks for your time.